quote:Originally posted by richard_shiflet:
I don't like be the one to change the topic of a thread, but I have no problem adding to one that's already strayed. LOL
DIKI wrote:
I actually contacted Nigel, and asked him if he could split this section off and start a new thread, as I consider this a VERY significant topic, but he said the software can't do this, but he wanted to leave Dom's posts up for all to see.

Well...after Doctor Fran suggest to take a pill or two, seem that this pills had really a good effects! I take the same and I have opened one new thread how you have request.

This thread is the continue discussion from this topic: http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/Forum37/HTML/015709-2.html

and now here we can continue fight about copyright sampling issue.
I will continue posting here ONLY if you there continue RESPECT the all others people too.
Here we can sharing under nice posting our ideas and opinion without Attack and offence other people, ok?
Who will attack will get automatically back the attack, so..try to be a civil person or is better that Niglel close this Topic.

Let's start...

If you were showing any respect for Yamaha, or Roland, or Korg, or any of the other keyboard manufacturers you intend to clone and profit from their labors, you would deserve to be shown some here.

Unfortunately, you are not...

Nigel, please don't close this thread. The sooner this guy digs his own grave, the sooner we will be rid of him.

Well, I'm the first that give the full respect to this 3 big brands, because someone there are my friends too.

In second way, untill another 200-300 and famous sound company continue developing and cloning LEGALLY instruments too, we are allowed to sampling what the all we like and nobody can do nothing.

IF there someone like proceed legally, first the have to try to close web server like: http://vstclub.com/
where now more than 1 milion dowload cracked/copied software was done.
Another nice FREE CRAKED server is the: http://audio(xxxxxx).com, where you can register and dowload the ALL possible craked audio software, including all the sounds library too. ( they have already my soundbank copied too, but I really don't care at all)

Give TON of this craked server, just look around in the web...
Is this legally?? Why the big brands company don't try to close this web server, looking the IP's and vitis they at home?? Maybe they can not or is not legally??

Do you think that some sounbank "cloned" legally under ONLY GIGA format for some MS and PC gigastudio system they care??

another example:
Apple years ago invested milions of dollars for make the Ipod, how many company then try to copy and offer in every angle this products?
It's leggally??
Apple OS X use the linux kernel from many years and they SELL the software with the Linux resource kernel and dont pay the license to the linux kernel developers, it's is legally?

Send TON of Mail SPAM is legally? Is NOT, butthey continue and nobody can stopping.

So DIKI, you are the last one that can judge what is right or not, legally or not and untill all is not legally, all the others will continue anyway, because the know that nothing is possible to do for stopping this Illegal issue.

Generation, mentality, marketing and competiotion is totally changed from many years.

Me and others do NOT care how much yamaha have invested for develope his propietary sounds, this was yamaha marketing decision, because they will continue sell embedded instruments, closed system, closed and SLOW CPU of 10-20 years ago.
This is ONLY numerical marketing untill you all guy will continue buy toys, they will continue offer closed system toys.

So..do not fight then IF you need the USB 2.0, more RAM and fast HD, because you know that you will NEVER have this features, UNTILL the 3 big one will CHANGE the totally system under the PC.

Korg with the Oasys was the first one too, BUT still closed system and NOT expandable how you like.

Continue marketing closed embedded system, give they the warranty that nobody can cloning the full RAW, source OS data and hardware, because is about Impossible.

For sure oneday when the all this embedded market is full and they can not continue offer toys, USB 1.0, HD 2Gb, Internet and more, they will start to open the new PC field and copy OUR Mediastation ideas and linux source.

This is FULL legally, because nobody can stopping the new technology and competition marketing.

IF they wil continue, they have to pass under PC system and then thy are able too to offer FREE software and soundsbank, with the possibility to loading GIGA of Mb data in realtime.

I think the Big Three will eventually switch over and start making keyboards based on either Linux or MS OS. In fact the new Motif XS has a Linux based OS now. Of course it is relatively primitive compared to what Lionstracs (with full Linux OS) and OpenLabs (with MS OS) offers. You cannot load or use VSTi's in the Motif XS. But since Yamaha owns Steinberg I think eventually Yamaha will offer a Keyboard that will be able to load and use VSTi's just like Mediastation and Neko can. I think it is the wave of the future and Lionstracs and Openlabs are the frontrunners in the race, but maybe not for long.

Kudos though to Lionstracs and Openlabs for taking the initiative and getting this technology into keyboards. I also think Wersi offers something similar too but I'm not sure if you can use VSTi's in a Wersi, but I know it uses a Windows OS.

Competition is good no matter how you look at it. I am glad there is Lionstracs and Openlabs to counter what the established and much larger Big Three offer. And I hope Lionstracs and Openlabs continue to expand and gain marketshare with the products they offer. You want the future? You have it now with the Lionstracs Mediastation and OpenLabs Neko. My main concern is being able to keep the prices affordable for the masses. That is one of the big reasons people are presently cautious of buying into this new technology. Not only is it unconventional and relatively unknown but the prices are much higher than comparable Sample based keyboards that are currently on the market.

Best,
Mike

Hi Mike
Wersi has been making instruments using the Microsoft OS for more then 7 years, and have been able to use VSTs for over 6 years, Lionstracs and Openlabs are newbie’s by comparison.
The first OAS instruments made are still in production, and so they can be updated to the latest version without trading in the board; this is why in the long term they work out cheaper.
Another point to note is that they are as easy to use as most Hardware Arrangers and Organs, whereas Openlabs and Lionstracs still require a fair amount of input and knowledge from the user.
Finally, Wersi have been making Organs and Keyboards since 1969 and so have a wealth of experience.
Enjoy whatever you play

Bill

Firstly, Dom, those warez sites exist because they operate in countries that DO NOT abide by international copyright law. You, on the other hand are based in Italy, correct?

Secondly, whether they avoid prosecution or not, even YOU acknowledge that they ARE breaking the law (at least of civilized countries).

As to not caring that your own soundbank has been sampled, well, perhaps you would care a lot more if you had actually payed a LOT of money to have it developed. But from the sound of it, you didn't... Do you honestly expect us to believe that if you had spent the millions that the Big 3 have on sound development (they didn't get their sounds by going out and cloning YOUR keyboard, for sure!) that you would be happy about it? LOL

And just because someone ELSE is a thief does NOT make it OK for everyone to be one... If someone murders you, should we forgive them because other murderers sometimes get away with it? Wrong is wrong, whether it is 'legal' or protected by rogue nations that do not respect international law.

If the chinese copied all your chips, hardware and software, and started manufacturing a hardware Mediastation at a fraction of the price of your keyboard, would you THEN still be in favor of 'cloning'? Or do you think that protection of intellectual property (your design for the hardware of the MS) is important? This is a very different issue if YOU are the one being copied, eh, Dom?

Me, I see NO difference between the DESIGN of an arranger, and the sounds and styles it contains, especially if you had payed a fortune for BOTH to be developed. Sadly, you have nothing emotionally or financially invested in your own soundbank (understandably, from listening to it!) and seem to think that you have 'friends' at Yamaha Remember, the soundset for the T2 was NOT developed by your 'friends' in Italy, at least in the most part. Perhaps you would like to contact the team that DID develop the drum kits, or the piano samples, or the orchestral voices, or ANY of the included ROM (primarily, Yamaha Japan), and ask them if THEY consider themselves your 'friends'? LOL

And you completely misstate and misunderstand my position. I have NO opposition to an 'open' keyboard. I have said many times that when the soundset and styles finally become competitive, I would be interested in one. But I have also posted MANY times that I think you ought to (LEGALLY) license some of the better VSTi's and GIGA soundbanks (developed by skilled programmers, not cloners!) and have a coherent, 'better than T2' soundset that styles could be developed for.

But rather than deal with that, and the expense and time of it (which all the hardware manufacturers HAVE to), your response is to give up on a 'better than T2' soundset, and just resort to piracy. And piracy of a product you claim is 'inferior' to your arranger! It's hard to justify that when the only way your MS is competitive with a hardware arranger is to clone it!!

Sadly, all your arguments have holes in them big enough to drive a bus through, Dom. All you are saying to justify your actions is, basically, 'THAT thief got away with burglary, so it MUST be OK..! O.J. got away with murdering his wife, why shouldn't I?'. Ethics go hand in hand with a successful company, and unfortunately, yours don't inspire ANY confidence. If you are willing to steal from your competition, why not your customers?

Free updates FOREVER doesn't sound so promising, now, do they..? If you decide 'well, THIS company promised it, and afterwards changed their minds and got away with it, so why can't I?'. Or 'this company no longer respects it's warranty, and got away with it, so why shouldn't I?'... You see where this leads, Dom?

Me, I may just be a 'beach musician of older generation', but I don't have to steal ANYTHING to make a living...

Diki, didn't you steal Bob Marley's picture, and use it as your identity?

Now every time I see a pic of Marley, I want to smack him beside the head...thanks to you..

Boy this is an interesting subject! I listened to those Tyros 2 sounds, and for MP's I thought they sounded pretty good. Dom nailed the saxes!

As far as it being legal.. Man, that's a good question. It would vary from country to country I guess.

I've always supported Dom and the MS, but to be honest, even though I thought the sampled sounds were good, I can't see how it's legal really. You do have to consider Yamaha spent a good deal of time and money on their sound engineering over the years. It's one thing to sample them for personal use, but to sample them and "profit" from sounds created by another--that's a little iffy if you ask me.

Hell, you can drive a car with your feet if you want to.., but that still doesn't make it a good idea, ya know. Maybe selling this GIGA CD isn't such a good idea, but again I can only assume Dom has had someone who understands their legal system there and again can only assume he has consulted with someone regarding this before releasing the CD.

Now the Mediastation has T2 sounds in it and is half Yamaha, will Fran be selling his or waiting for a G70 sample sound set so he can say it's a Roland hehe

All Dom needs now is to get some good styles in there, they're more than overdue.

Craig, the MS is not mine to sell..Domenik supplied it to me..

Perk for being in his camp